[OFBiz] Users - Spring versus Ofbiz?

Richard Nduka richjonsy at yahoo.co.uk
Thu Mar 3 02:44:17 EST 2005 

Then i think that making documentations (books) available for ofbiz like spring would be a big bomb. Not only that, it would improve marketing for ofbiz and quite a number of people would get to know more about it there by bringing in even more revenue for the authors. Those seminars aint good enough atleast for me.

David <achepati67 at yahoo.es> wrote:Hello,

mpf at zentric.com wrote: 
>I just looked at the documentation of spring. However I found that they dont have a better documentation on the first look. The problem with ofbiz is that the docs are spreaded over many websites and it takes time to find your way. But this is common to other projects, too

For me a big difference is that it is a newer project and they have two books published about the framework:

Pro Spring by Rob Harrop and Jan Machacek 

Spring Live by Matt Raible 


so you get structurated information and with lower prices than ofbiz seminars.

>A Howto section is missing with ofbiz, but there is the getting started secition on the wiki and much more.

The wiki section is very poor, some times it is not enought.

>I looked at 
>http://www.springframework.org/downloads/EduardoIssao/Spring.pdf
>to find out where the difference between Spring versus Ofbiz 

Spring:
>- I dont see any existing entities there. Its just a framework! OfBIZ has 600 plus well-thought entities ready to be used and aggreed upon!

it is a different philosofy, with ofbiz, you don't see the boundary of the framework and final applications. With Spring is clear, you have only framework that works like plug-in, you can use Hibernate or not, or JDO implementation, etc. You can use Structs if you want or its owner solution, etc.

>+ it seems they have a better marketing department!

I am completly agree with you at this point and now day it is very important!!!

>So Spring just has a different approach and can not be compared to ofbiz which is an erp-system with a nice framwork! Spring is just a framework! So there are years until spring could reach ofbiz level !?

Ok, but because it is dificult to separate what is framework and final application, if you have data-model from other reality than the model examples, you have a big problem, becuase it takes a lot of time separating all the examples information (final application from the framework).

If Ofbiz is more complete, then it will need more documentation!!! (obvious), :-) , because it is necesarry to explain more, that is a big contradiction, isn't it?

Thanks for you comments,

David Leal

users-bounces at lists.ofbiz.org wrote on 28.02.2005 16:59:38:

> Dear David,
> 
> "David E. Jones" <jonesde at ofbiz.org> wrote: 
> 
> >Where does this idea come from that OFBiz has no documentation? Is 
> there some specific documentation or training material that you are 
> looking for that doesn't exist? I guess in other words, could everyone 
> be a little bit more specific than "no documentation"?
> 
> The quality of the courses is not good, at least for people who are 
> not english spoken it is not easy to follow the conference. A friend
> of my bought the courses and it is difficult for him to understand, 
> the quality of the sound it is not enough for non english spoken people.
> 
> As far as I know this project started on 2001, just for comparing, 
> Spring is an Open Source p! roject from 2003 and there are at least 
> two books published. Why ofbiz can't do that.
> 
> Courses are very expensive compare with buying a book and people 
> learn more, reading a book than looking in to seminar. If you 
> assist to the seminar is better because you can ask a question to 
> the teacher at least but if you buy the course you are passive 
> student, :-) (but such need financial support by the company, buyinga book no)
> 
> On my opinion the best way to make money on Open Source Project is 
> to publishing a book at least, other solution like videos, etc, are 
> no so popular, are expensive and are not apropiated for non english 
> spoken people. If you don't think on money, then the best way to be 
> popular is to have a good product and good documentation (= good 
> tutorial and/or good books)
> 
> >As to the "smaller" com! ment, it is interesting. Part of the problem 
> with documenting OFBiz is the size and complexity of the project. Also, 
> to date we have no volunteers dedicating time to documentation on a 
> consistent basis, ie there is no one charge of documentation. Certain 
> companies, like Undersun Consulting, do have a person dedicated to 
> documentation, but even in a year there is only so much one person can 
> do...
> 
> The problem is the oposite one, you will never have volunteers if 
> only a very few previlege group really understand ofbiz. In order 
> this tool become popular people need to have the feelling they have 
> access to the documentation of the tool. It is the second time I am 
> trying to learn about ofbiz with the same result: it is very hard to
> get information about the product. There is no a simple hello world 
&! gt; example for downloading!!!!!, etc.
> 
> On my opinion if you want to have volunteers, ofbiz has to make an 
> effort in order to offer good tutorials or books, like any other 
> open source project. After the tool become popular, you will obtain 
> as feedback a lot of enthusiastic people for writting about 
> something  that they understand and love.
> 
> >Anyway, let me know what you are looking for that you can't find. 
> Perhaps we can trick something up. There is already quite a bit 
> available from different sources, including around 1000 pages of images 
> and text and some diagrams, and around 50 hours of video.
> 
> I have to demostrate to my boss that ofbiz is a good solution for 
> developing our applications. 
> 
> In order to demostrate that at least I would like to make a simple 
> pr! ototype, lets say a "Hello world" example (service that asks to 
> the database about a given local greeting and shows the result on 
> the web browser) In order to make such simple example the only 
> solution is to buy a seminar!!!
> 
> As far as I know, I have the intuition ofbiz is a good idea, but it 
> takes a lot of time to learn how to do simple think. There is no so 
> much time for developing but we have to invest a lot of time and 
> possible money for learning.
> 
> How to convince some one, that something is good, but there is no 
> good tutorial, there is no book, you have to invest money buying 
> some seminar or curses, etc. I could use my money for buying a book,
> but not for such seminar, so I have to involve other people from my company.
> 
> Thanks for you help any way,
> 
> David
> 
> >Thanks,
! > >-David
> 
> On Feb 28, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Richard Nduka wrote:
> 
> > Chris,
> >  
> > Well to me if other smaller open source solutions could have 
> > documentation i really do not see why OFBIZ should not. This would to 
> > a large extent aid its adoption faster than is d case at d moment. Not 
> > having good documentation is a disadvantage.
> >  
> > Regards
> > Richard
> >
> > Chris Howe wrote:
> > David,
> > I know exactly how you feel on the documentation
> > factor. When I started on this in late November, I
> > felt the exact same way (I've only messed around with
> > this on some weekends since). But you know, it's kind
> >! ; of weird - the fact that there isn't documentation
> > makes OFBiz almost easier to deal with. I know that
> > doesn't make one bit of sense. But, I'm finding that
> > to be more and more true. I am not a programmer. I
> > Have only messed around with php probably for 3 weeks.
> > (That PHP knowledge has probably hindered my learning
> > curve). That's the extent of my programming
> > experience, nothing else. The documentation to use
> > this project is there.
> >
> > Undersun Consulting and Integral Business Solutions
> > have just released a very good document on setting up
> > a basic installation.
> > http://www.undersunconsulting.com/static/OFBizBasicProductionSetup.pdf
> > But there was documenation around that got you to the
> > same point available already from Ethical Shopper (i
> > think that's who had it)
> >
> > Having complete documentation (from a programming
> > point of view) is almost like having documentation for
> > Lincoln Logs or Legos. If you look at it long enough,
> > you'll know how to put it together.
> >
> > I would still consider myself a novice when it comes
> > ! to OFBiz, but I would find it troublesome to put into
> > words any more basic an explanation of what's going on
> > then the code does. I couldn't imagine how dificult
> > it would be for someone with more experience and a
> > larger programming vocabulary to dumb up an
> > explanation.
> >
> > I know this doesn't help you with your comparison
> > between Spring and Ofbiz. I have never looked at
> > Spring, so I'm of no help. I hope you go with OFBiz
> > and take on the learning curve, it! should help you and
> > the rest of the community greatly.
> >
> >
> > --------Original Message-------------
> >
> > Dear Chen,
> >
> > Thanks for your information, but on the slides there
> > is no any mention to Spring, the slides talk
> > only about ofbiz. What I want is to get information
> > about any co! mparation ofbiz with other framework, for
> > example with Spring.
> >
> > It seems to me that o! fbiz is a very interesting and
> > powerfull product, but with very poor documentation,
> > so it is really hard to learn about ofbiz and to use
> > it. On my opinion people who knows ofbiz is a
> > privelege group.
> >
> > Please let me know if you have any information about
> > Spring and Ofbiz, difference similiarities, etc.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > David
> >
> > Si Chen wrote:
> > David,
> >
> > Take a look at the slides from my recent talk in
> > Orange County about OFBiz.
> > http://www.sinfoniasolutions.com/articles.php
> >
> > In particular, take a look at the! slides in the middle
> > about the
> > "Evolution of OFBiz", Java vs. OFBiz persistence
> > frameworks, and the
> > Service Oriented Architecture. If it doesn't make any
> > sense, drop me a
> > note and I'll send you the notes as well.
> >
> > Si
> >
> > David wrote:
> >
> > > De! ar Member,
> > >
> > > Could someone tell me differences and advantages
> > between Spring
> > > (http://www.springframework.org) and Ofbiz. It seems
> > to me that
> > > both have a very similar purpose and are a J2EE
> > framework.
> > >
> > > For me at least there is an interesting different in
> > favor of Spring.
> > > There are book published about the framework!!!, so
> > there is possible
> > > to learn at least about how it works, with ofbiz you
> > don't find such
> > > information.
> > >
> > > Any way I would like to get some feedback from
> > people who know both
> > > framworks.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance,
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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